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Spotting rules - the L! horror?

MessagePosté: Sam Avr 19, 2008 6:21 pm
de Tichy
Quite a while ago, I obtained copy of L! and IM. After few solo tries, I got to like the idea of the game and also the way (a bit twisted perhaps) movement and firefights are done. However, as spotting rules of L! are quite understandable and in fact offer fantastic opportunities to sneak troops under the eyes of an opponent - at least, well until spotted, IM spotting rules seem horror to handle.

Courious minds wonder, how do you do it? :)

Oh, by the way, is there any good PBEM system available for L!? I'd be very happy to know and give a try.


MessagePosté: Sam Avr 19, 2008 8:33 pm
de Arnauld
Hi Tichy,

I'm very glad to count you amongst us.

L! rules : it is not as uncomprehensible at it could seem ... Well ... yes, it is not very comprehensible, I agree. But it is, in fact, quite simple. If you need more explanations, don't hesitate...

I didn't play with IM rules, unfortunately. I have noone to play with in fact ^^ But IM spotting rules attract me : units don't automatically spot ennemy. It is more real, no ?

For PBEM, I made a wonderful cyberboard gamebox.

I am also developping rules for solo play.

Well... what else... I let you read the forum in order to discover other things that could interest you.

MessagePosté: Dim Avr 20, 2008 8:56 am
de Tichy
Gland to enlist.

Ach, same problem. Geographic distribution of L! players seems to be quite unfavorable uneven. :)

Actually, perhaps IM spotting would work better if it is limited only to the turn. Eg. If my platoon spots troops two hex away this turn, it will have to make another roll next turn to see if it's still there (regardless, if unit moved or not). Then the fire resolution table of IM makes much more sense (eg. being more fatal... once target is found).

I have odd feeling that rule 8.24 becomes a bit of burden.

Another related couriosity. Stronghold is good place for MG, however, not
if you have troops crossing no man's land or in trenches on the front. MG fire can not pass trough. I'd imagine that strongholds have elevation gain and unit in stronghold would be able to respond fire over troops in trenches (for IM, at least prepared ones)?

Yet, another interesting couriosity, if platoon spots enemy troops, say two hexes away, would that be eligible target for all platoons on firing range or just for the one who spotted it? Or, perhaps the one who spotted it + ones in adjacent hexes?

It was pretty hard to find targets on trench warfare - say, effectively hit them at least...

Hmmm, ever thought about game trough skype?

MessagePosté: Dim Avr 20, 2008 11:07 am
de Arnauld
Well ... 8.24 ... the annoying rule !!
> this is how I play : once a unit is spotted it receives a "spotted" marker. Don't check the box, you have to make them by yourself if you want ones.

The unit may be spotted :
-through the spotting range chart in accordance with the terrain it occupies
-in a range of 10 hex when it fires.

The "spotted" marker is removed :
for the 1st player : after the offensive fire phase of the 2nd player
for the 2nd player : after the offensive phase of the 1st player

I apply the 8.24 in this way :
when a unit moves, remove its "spotted" marker
otherwise, apply the spotting range chart (without considering if the unit fired or not)

I personnally don't like the fact a unit loses its marker by moving. That's why I like IM rules. It prevents players from moving units artificially.

For strongpoints : I read the same complaint on consimworld. It remains to be seen if Perry Moore imagined strongpoints as strongpoints or as something more "generic". Well, rules may be updated in this way ?!

About your last questions :
L! : an ennemy unit can be fired at only by friendly units which can spot them. No walkie-talkie, use your own eyes.

IM : well. According to the rules, an ennemy can be fired at if your unit have spotted it. I imagine that each friendly who want to fire must have obtain a successful roll. Someone asks Perry Moore if a friendly unit who fails at his roll can fire at the ennemy unit if an other unit spotted it. He answers yes. I disagree with him. I think that Perry answers that to give an answer. I think that he has forgotten IM rules from 2000. I agree to make fire only units who spotted themselves ennemy units.

Landships! via Skype ?! Never thought about it !! Some presse me for a Vassal module. Well... I think taht CBB works very well.

MessagePosté: Dim Avr 20, 2008 8:53 pm
de Tichy
Hmm, enlightening.

I actually identify spotted units by turning them about 90 degrees but I guess some set of handy markers to identify who spotted who would be good to have.

Well, I have actually favor of "only those who see shall shoot" idea. There is no reason to have change to use eyes of some other platoon. It actually kind of enforces the devastating effect when enemy opens fire and large quantity of firepower happens to be on 10 hex range. Oh well, his mistake. :)

Lay low and try to sneak trough the no mans land and try not to be spotted by enemy troops, engage on close quarters.

I believe I have to read the spotting rules of IM again with thought and perhaps apply the theory in practice on board.

About game trough Skype. it actually occurred as kind of quick alternative of cyberboard, besides the fact that I like the manual interface a bit more.

Any interest to give it a shot?

MessagePosté: Dim Avr 20, 2008 8:59 pm
de Arnauld
Why not but ... you didn' mention your country in your profile !! Where are you from ?

I am french and I am not really sure to understand everything you'd say.


MessagePosté: Jeu Avr 24, 2008 12:43 pm
de Arnauld
Spotting rule (a translation of this :

Landships! official errata (after thinking hard about it, and ake a parallel with IM spotting rule, this is the "solution" that seems the best)

A firing unit is spotted on a 10 hex range. It stays spotted until it is eliminated or it moves (unless if it moves to a location from where it is spotted according ONLY to the spotting chart.